[Homeroast] Why is espresso in America so bad? Italian perspective

Rich rich-mail at octoxol.com
Thu Feb 25 14:05:11 CST 2016


The advent of the forum dried up this list.

On 02/25/2016 12:51 PM, Ben Treichel wrote:
> Yep, and the list isn't what it use to be 10+ years ago.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Brian Kamnetz <bkamnetz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know either, but I am assuming Tom does not, because it has been a
>> long time since he posted. Byron monitors the list.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Ben Treichel <J.W.Bullfrog at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Do we know he doesn't. Don't know; asking
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Brian Kamnetz <bkamnetz at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Very interesting, Clark. Thanks for the post. This makes me miss the
>> days
>>>> when Tom used to lurk here.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Clark Barclay <
>>> pedestriancoffee at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LOL. Everything about this article is incorrect. In fact, it pisses
>> me
>>>> off
>>>>> that someone would write with such ignorance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I especially like the part about how old machines work better, sure,
>>>> maybe
>>>>> the old technology is superior to many modern espresso machines'
>>>>> technology, but the build up of coffee grime etc. is irrelevant. So a
>>>>> classic car that's never been serviced performs better?
>>>>>
>>>>> You got to give it up to Italy for they're rich coffee and espresso
>>>>> history and culture, but times have changed. I agree that your
>> average
>>>>> espresso shot in Italy is better than your average espresso shot in
>> the
>>>> US-
>>>>> i'm factoring in diners, restaurants, cafés of all types, etc.- but
>> the
>>>>> reasons he states aren't accurate. And comparing to third wave is so
>>>> wrong
>>>>> . We're all drinking the same stuff, blended Brazilian beans (mainly)
>>>> when
>>>>> it comes to run-of-the-mill coffee- that's loaded with defects in
>> other
>>>>> nasty stuff thats best we don't know about. I love it when I meet
>>> people
>>>>> from other countries that tell me they have the best coffee. and
>> then I
>>>>> asked him where it comes from and they have no idea. People think
>> their
>>>>> coffee grows in their country, haha. Trade routes and proximity to
>>> coffee
>>>>> growing regions was once a thing but now commodity coffee is
>> commodity
>>>>> coffee, were all drinking the same stuff- unless of course you're
>>> buying
>>>>> specialty grade like us here on Sweet Maria's. Globalization people.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a barista at a 3rd wave cafe, I've had many European customers
>>>> complain
>>>>> about the amount of time an espresso takes, but that's because we are
>>>>> making it with a lot of attention. There are two main reasons why
>>>> espresso
>>>>> is faster in Europe: One, the coffee menu is much smaller so baristas
>>> are
>>>>> often just blindly pulling shots during rushes, so you get your
>>> espresso
>>>>> right as you order it. Third wave coffee shops, hopefully, make your
>>>>> espresso to order. Secondly the barista in Italy, or your average
>> cafe
>>> in
>>>>> the US is not weighing, timing, weighing again, tasting, dialing,
>>>>> adjusting, etc., your espresso. Sure, I can pull a shot in 30
>> seconds,
>>>> but
>>>>> chances are it won't taste amazing. No two shots are the same- the
>>> grind
>>>>> setting, dosing, output etc. must be manually monitored and adjusted
>>>>> throughout the day if you want consistent and good shots. Then again
>>> many
>>>>> people will put milk and or sugar in their espresso so the quality of
>>> the
>>>>> shot doesn't really matter anyway. I'm certain that those European
>>>>> customers who complain would be happier with a shot that I carelessly
>>>>> pulled in 30 seconds then with one that I meticulously pulled in two
>>>>> minutes that tastes amazing. I completely respect people's desire for
>>>> quick
>>>>> coffee, but sometimes I just want to tell them: when in Rome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I'd like to comment about the regional differences in espresso.
>>>> From
>>>>> my short career as a barista it all has to do with the café/companies
>>>> specs
>>>>> that they make all their baristas follow. For example, A particular
>>>>> espresso blend at bluebottle could have a speck of 18 g in, 40 g out.
>>>> That
>>>>> spec will be used at all of their cafés and result in an ideally
>>>> consistent
>>>>> tasting and feeling shot.  There are essentially two types of
>> espresso
>>>>> specs, thick and sweet/sour or thin and sweet. Despite what the
>> article
>>>>> says finer grinds do not mean better espresso. Grind is just one of
>> the
>>>>> many variables, and the setting has a lot to do with the dosing and
>>>> output,
>>>>> not to mention personal preference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also love the part where he mentions third wave cafés are not
>>> exposing
>>>>> the true taste of coffee. Third wave cafés often focus on lighter
>>>> roasting.
>>>>> The more you roast coffee the more naturally occurring acids burn
>> off.
>>>> He's
>>>>> got it totally flipped. acids=flavor complexity. Heat = carbon and
>>> lactic
>>>>> acid, I can agree with the argument that carbon and lactic acid taste
>>>>> better with milk and sugar. You don't need to like light roasts, most
>>> ppl
>>>>> don't, but you can't say longer roast exposes more of the "true
>> taste"
>>> of
>>>>> coffee.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, the water comment is ridiculous. It has everything to do
>> with
>>>>> what treatment grid you're on. You can't make that generalization
>> about
>>>>> entire countries with cities on thousands of different grids and
>>>> different
>>>>> treatment methods.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I'm done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sharing
>>>>>
>>>>> - Clark
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 23, 2016, at 6:40 PM, Michael Rasmussen <
>>> michael at michaelsnet.us
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This Rome native transplanted to San Francisco critiques and
>> analyzes
>>>> US
>>>>> coffee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://medium.com/@sinzone/why-is-espresso-in-america-so-bad-b0606d8ddeb5#.ubzk6ojd0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>     Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
>>>>>>   Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
>>>>>> The universe is a program. You're just a subroutine.
>>>>>>   ~ Zach Weiner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>>>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's
>>>>> Forum</a>
>>>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee
>>>> Library</a>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's
>>>> Forum</a>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee
>>> Library</a>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's
>>> Forum</a>
>>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee
>> Library</a>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>
>>>
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's
>> Forum</a>
>>> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee Library</a>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Homeroast mailing list
>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's Forum</a>
>> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee Library</a>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Homeroast mailing list
> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> <a href="http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/">Sweet Maria's Forum</a>
> <a href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/library">Our new Coffee Library</a>
>



More information about the Homeroast mailing list