[Homeroast] Storage right after roasting

John Nordling john.nordling at gmail.com
Tue Aug 19 19:45:43 CDT 2014


My roasting conditions need a lot more refinement before I'll be able to
even think about storage optimization!

:)

John

~~
"Can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all."   Neutral Milk
Hotel, *In the Aeroplane Over the Sea*

Email:  john.nordling at gmail.com


On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Seth Grandeau <grandeau at gmail.com> wrote:

> I normally leave roasted beans in an open container for 24 hours, then seal
> it up, air-tight.  But, sometimes I forget and I have left beans open for 3
> days.  The end result was identical, to my taste buds.  I have read that
> storage conditions don't matter if you are drinking coffee in under 2
> weeks, and my own experience matches that.  I wouldn't put too much thought
> or effort into perfecting your coffee resting conditions.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:22 PM, John Nordling <john.nordling at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I mostly agree with you, but given that CO2 is more dense than O2
> > (considerably), left undisturbed,  by and large, you shouldn't get much
> O2
> > down on your beans (assuming a small opening, no breeze, etc.)
> >
> > Now, given that I open mine up every day to take a few scoops for
> grinding,
> > I get O2 in there.  I solve the problem mostly by drinking a lot of
> coffee.
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~
> > "Can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all."   Neutral Milk
> > Hotel, *In the Aeroplane Over the Sea*
> >
> > Email:  john.nordling at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Michael Koenig <koenig.mike at icloud.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've ranted on this topic in the past before, so hopefully the old
> timers
> > > on the list will bear with me.
> > >
> > > Gases are funny things and mix very readily. It's easy it assume they
> > > behave like oil and water, but the reality is they they mix readily.
> > > Therefore the CO2 given off by the resting beans will ALWAYS be mixed
> > with
> > > O2.  You may reduce the concentration of O2 but it's my contention that
> > in
> > > order to exclude meaningful amounts of O2 you need to either pull a
> > vacuum
> > > on your container (pulling your volatiles out with it), or extensively
> > > purge with another gas.  On the timescale we drink our coffee it simply
> > is
> > > not worth jumping through these hoops.  (Nitrogen flushed bags might be
> > > worthwhile for a commercial roasting operation who wants longer
> > shelf-life).
> > >
> > > Back in my lab days we had a glovebox that was flushed with nitrogen to
> > > work with oxygen sensitive compounds. It required several pump downs
> and
> > > nitrogen flushes to get out all the oxygen. This is something that's
> just
> > > not practical or worth worrying about for us home roasters.
> > >
> > > --mike
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Aug 16, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Mike Davis <mldavis2 at sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think the big unknown in storage techniques is the effect of oxygen
> > > (if any) to the resting process.  Over a long enough time period,
> coffee
> > > will go stale of course when exposed to oxygen.  But on the other side,
> > we
> > > know that "resting" can enhance the flavor. So the real question would
> > seem
> > > to be what happens during the "resting" time and if the presence or
> > absence
> > > of oxygen is responsible for the improvement.  Logically, if CO2 is a
> > > result of chemical process taking place during "resting" then oxygen
> > should
> > > be nearly non-existent.  It is possible that cooling could pull oxygen
> > back
> > > into the beans.  But storage immediately after cooling would seal them
> > from
> > > additional oxygen as the beans exuded CO2 which would expel oxygen from
> > the
> > > container for a while before oxygen begins to work its way back in when
> > CO2
> > > pressure is reduced to equal.  So I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that
> the
> > > favorable chemical processes that enhance coffee during resting are a
> > > "coasting effect" of heating and continue to completion in the (nearly)
> > > total absence of oxygen.  In other words, they are not an oxidation
> > process
> > > as such requiring oxygen.
> > > >
> > > > So my system (such as it is) is based on those assumptions.  Put the
> > > beans into a light-tight container (AirScape canister) with minimal
> holes
> > > just sufficient to allow exit of CO2 overnight, yet so small that the
> > > greater CO2 pressure probably prevents incursion of oxygen as the CO2
> > > exits.  Then seal the canister once the CO2 has stopped. There should
> be
> > > little or no oxygen present except what little might remain in the
> beans,
> > > and the coffee should complete the chemical "coast" and then more or
> less
> > > stop, waiting for the lid to be unsealed.  I think this is the idea
> > behind
> > > coffee that is weeks old (or older) on store shelves - one way CO2
> valves
> > > that exclude oxygen.  Once my beans are loaded into the hopper, then of
> > > course, there is abundant oxygen and staling begins.
> > > >
> > > > That's just what seems to work for me.  I'm always open to better
> > > suggestions and ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Davis
> > > >
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