[Homeroast] New roaster

Seth Grandeau grandeau at gmail.com
Mon May 13 19:39:45 CDT 2013


Fun fact...the cup of McDonald's coffee cost 49 cents, back in 1994.


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Rich <rich-mail at octoxol.com> wrote:

> FORD actually won the PINTO case on an appeal as the owners had lost the
> gas cap and had a rag stuffed into the filler. As you stated the car met
> the existing safety standards and was not the only car on the road at that
> time with a tank sticking up in the air in back. I saw many Pintos with a
> shop rag sticking in the filler as it was very easy to lose the gas cap and
> they were expensive to replace as they were color matched to the car. I
> remember looking at the Pinto the first year it hit the market and opining
> at the time that the tank looked vulnerable. I was driving a 1938 MG TA at
> the time which also had the tank between the body and spare on the back.
>
> The major fallout from the McDonalds hot coffee case is it is near
> impossible to buy a cup of coffee that is much above bath water temperature.
>
>
> On 05/13/2013 06:21 PM, Seth Grandeau wrote:
>
>> The jury in the McDonalds case awarded the woman $2.7 million.  The judge
>> lowered it to $600,000 and they settled for something less, to avoid
>> McDonald's appealing the verdict.  But, in my opinion, the case was
>> frivolous, even at the $20k level.  The woman placed a hot cup of coffee
>> between her legs, in a car, then spilled it on herself.  The coffee was
>> hot, but when is the last time anyone on this list brewed coffee at less
>> than 190 degrees.  Personal responsibility was trumped by deep pockets.
>>
>> And as to the Ford Pinto case, I happened to have done a paper on it back
>> in college.  The true story is, the Pinto met the safety standards of the
>> day.  The gov't had announced that they would be raising the rear impact
>> standard, so Ford tested at the new, higher speed and found the flaming
>> explosion problem.    Since they met the standard of the day, they did the
>> cost/benefit analysis on implementing the fix immediately, at a cost of
>> something like $10 per car.  The value of a human life that they used was
>> $100,000.  Now that sounds pretty callous, but you need to understand that
>> this is the same value that the US gov't uses in evaluating highway safety
>> projects, and that's where they took the number from.  While this mode of
>> vehicular death is gruesome  the fact is, the real life safety statistics
>> for the Pinto were no worse than other small cars in it's category.  I
>> believe it was actually a little safer.  There are, in fact, many things
>> that could improve safety for around $10, but if we fix them all, there
>> would not be affordable cars to buy.  Ford chose where they did, they met
>> all gov't standards, and they lost the case, once the cost benefit study
>> was made public.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Mike Chester <mchet at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>  John,
>>> Thanks for explaining the true story. I already knew the facts, but it
>>> needs to repeated often, though I doubt that many opinions will be
>>> changed
>>> as most people don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
>>> The Internet is full of urban legends about "frivolous lawsuits." Some
>>> have a small grain of truth, and much exaggeration; others are pure
>>> bovine
>>> scat.
>>>
>>> I am reminded of another case where Ford Motor Company found that a new
>>> car design (I think it was the Pinto, but am not sure) that was ready to
>>> go
>>> into production, when struck from the rear, had the habit of spewing
>>> burning gasoline into the passenger compartment causing a very painful
>>> death for all within the car. Their bean counters figured out how many
>>> times this would happen and the probable payouts from the resulting
>>> wrongful death lawsuits from the families of the "crispy critters" and
>>> decided that it would cost less to pay the lawsuits than to re-design the
>>> car safely, so they sold the car knowing that there would be many
>>> innocent
>>> deaths, but they saved money.
>>>
>>> Mike Chester
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: John Nanci
>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:55 PM
>>> To: A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
>>> list,available at http://www.sweetmarias.com/****maillistinfo.html<http://www.sweetmarias.com/**maillistinfo.html>
>>> <http://www.**sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.**html<http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] New roaster
>>>
>>> Well, this could be a can of worms.
>>>
>>> Actually, iirc, she asked for about $20,000 to cover an 8 day stint
>>> in the hospital to treat her third degree burns caused by 190 F
>>> coffee (from coffee that was actually heated up to this temperature,
>>> but brewed colder).  McDonalds offered less than $1000 and a jury
>>> awarded the millions - she did not sue for it, nor receive it.  It
>>> was reduced to something like $600K.  But it was put so high
>>> initially because over the span of 10 years, McD had over 700
>>> lawsuits for burns under their belt.
>>>
>>> I can't bring myself to see this quite the same, but do see why you
>>> might have it come to mind.
>>>
>>> At 01:05 PM 5/13/2013, you wrote:
>>>
>>>  I'm suddenly reminded of the lady who sued McDonalds for millions, when
>>>> she
>>>> spilled hot coffee on herself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:25 PM, John Nanci <john at chocolatealchemy.com
>>>> >**
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Here here Ira.  Too true on the liability.  Sadly, people may not have
>>>>> to
>>>>> won a lawsuit against the manufacturer, but that does not mean the
>>>>> manufacturer has not had $10000's of dollars in legal fees defending
>>>>> against said suits, or had their insurance rates quadrupled because
>>>>> they
>>>>> were suddenly 'high risk'.  I wish I understood what makes some people
>>>>> sue
>>>>> happy for certain appliances and not others.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At 11:13 AM 5/13/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello Dennis,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sunday, May 12, 2013, 12:15 PM, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I met Joe back in the day and safety was the motivating factor for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> current design... (you cant trust an idiot to not burn the house >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> down)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet there are more than a few recommendations to run a Behmor with
>>>>>> 3/4 or 1/2 of the recommended weight of coffee.  I'm sure that
>>>>>>
>>>>> 10 ounces of
>>>>
>>>>> coffee at P1-B-1lb stretched to 20:30 is in the range of consistent or
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least more than the occasional fire if ignored and I'd guess that most
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the home machines can be persuaded similarly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe all coffee roaster boxes should just have the phrase "This >>
>>>>>>
>>>>> machine
>>>>
>>>>> will burn your house down if not used properly" prominently displayed
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> large red letters on the outside. It really is the users fault if it
>>>>>> goes
>>>>>> wrong and the liability should not fall on the manufacturer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone ever successfully sued the manufacturer of a table saw for
>>>>>> cutting off a finger or of a stove top for starting a fire when >>
>>>>>>
>>>>> forgetting
>>>>
>>>>> to turn down the heat when answering the phone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Ira
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