[Homeroast] Hot Rod Home Coffee Roasters: The Spirit of Invention, revisited And the elusive 1lber

Rich rich-mail at octoxol.com
Sun Jul 17 16:19:47 CDT 2011


At one time back in the late 70s A small group looked into manufacturing 
a crescent type adjustable wrench with a small valve wrench on the other 
end. You will note that it is not on the market. The patent was in hand, 
the design was done but the liability insurance was the end of it. A 
large tool company offered to buy the patent for pocket change though. 
Product liability insurance for a new unique product is near impossible 
to buy. There is none on the Quest and all they are depending on is the 
possible sanity of a foreign court. And I was thinking an electrically 
heated roaster, not gas fired, so it could be used indoors. And to 
install any propane appliance you had better be in 100% compliance with 
the NFPA if the fire inspector decides that the apliance started the 
fire. A non-aproved solid fuel appliance will be inspected by most 
insurance companies before writing a policy and it better meet the NFPA 
code to the letter for solid fuel. I can go buy an approved wood burner 
at he big box but if my homeowner installation is not to code I better 
not burn down the house with it. In most jurisdictions you need a real 
building permit to install one anyway.

On 07/17/2011 03:37 PM, Greg Hammond wrote:
> Rich:
>
> I agree with some of that, but I think it is overstated. Yes, development has to be amortized, and insurance is not free, though in the soft P&C market, highly unlikely to be the ratio you suggest. In fact, without knowing the market, we cannot possibly know the amortization ratios. There are plenty of examples of high risk first stage product that go though similar challenges. Propane is a routine and dangerous fuel base, widely used everywhere. So is gasoline. I have a grille with a propane starter but is capable of burning wood up to 800 degrees. Plenty of wood stoves. Millions of natural gas devices. The tedium of amortization and insurance are well known.
>
> It *can* be done, but there must be a market for it. I think that remains the big challenge. Without a market, Insurance and R&D amortization risks can be theoretically infinite.
>
> On Jul 17, 2011, at 11:51, Rich<rich-mail at octoxol.com>  wrote:
>
>> The cost to consumer is driven by the development costs and the liability insurance costs. The 1-2Kg roaster that could sell for 500-750 will be more like 4500-4750 and up due to these costs. No liability insurance company will provide coverage for an untested, brand new design device that is capable of taking 2 to 4 lb of a highly combustible material to 500F in less than 10 minutes with a forced or induced draft. You would have better luck if you installed an automatic 50lb CO2 fire suppression system on it but not much.
>>
>> Depending on where you live even buying a homeowners policy that includes fire insurance is very difficult if you have a solid fuel appliance in the building.
>>
>> On 07/17/2011 12:53 PM, Greg Hammond wrote:
>>> Ah, yes, where's the purity? Ed is right on one level (there is never enough "can do" to go around), but I tend to see the overall issue differently.  This sounds so much like the audio industry--"whatever happened to people willing to study and build their own tube amps?"—or cars (whatever happened to people who could change their own oil or actually work on their engine?).  I even read an editorial bewailing the loss of special status associate with being a Mac user now that Apple is a CE giant. Oh please.
>>>
>>> And the beer brewing hobby? It used to be a joke. Now it is not. And the sophistication of the off-the-shelf offerings is a direct resut of commercialization of early individualized efforts and the explosion of the craft brew industry.
>>>
>>> Part of what happened is that successive generations of both the market and the hobbyists have changed. I used to design and build audio equipment. Now I buy it. If I had to rely on people to keep doing what I did, well, there wouldn't be many choices. No market can survive long in pioneer mode alone. It needs to grow. And growth implies more ready-to-use solutions. So, yes, by all means, let's encourage the pioneer inventor/developer, but the reality is that market success is possible only when we eventually get past that as the primary development mechanism.
>>>
>>> We need more competitive versions of Quests and Behmors to help pull more novices in, to make it easy to roast. And we need more graduates of Behmors to bring $15k roaster prices down to $4500. We get that only with a bigger market. I enjoy the heck out of my Behmor. With all the workarounds and profile overlaps, and blending, I get some stuff that I just cannot buy anywhere. And all this workaround and the original inventiveness is great for learning.
>>>
>>> So, please keep developing, but personally, I want an off the shelf auto roaster that I can plug into a 20-amp circuit, and start using after ordering it 2 days earlier through Amazon prime.
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2011, at 9:34, Edward Bourgeois<edbourgeois at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.sweetmarias.com/homemade-homeroasters.php
>>>>
>>>> The world of roasters has changed in the mere 6 year since I started.
>>>> I contend that how many think about roasters and roasting has changed
>>>> also.
>>>> When I started there wasn't much for off the shelf roasters compared
>>>> to now.  There was a lot of new DIY builds and modifying what did
>>>> exist like MiKe's
>>>> modified Rosto setup. The conversations were much around how  beans
>>>> needed to be treated during roasting, what sort of control was
>>>> helpful,  the fundamentals of various approaches, etc.
>>>> Now it seems discussions are around P choices, roaster work-arounds
>>>> and when is there going to be a cheap 120v true 1lber and with no
>>>> needs for work-arounds on the market.
>>>> I get numerous requests of either, will you build me a Dreamroast? Or
>>>> do you think I could build one? I answer no to the first thanks to a
>>>> talking to by my lawyer friend and I just don't know how to answer the
>>>> second.
>>>> In the past, it seemed that folks would study up on roastering and
>>>> bean fundamentals, work up a plan, give it a go and ask for advice as
>>>> questions/problems arose. I named my roaster the Dreamroast because it
>>>> took me a year+ to come up with a design and sort through piles to
>>>> junk to find parts for the build. I'd do my thinking at night and
>>>> often wake up in the morning with ideas that I couldn't remember
>>>> whether they came to mind while I was still awake or in a dreams. Thus
>>>> it's my Dreamroaster.
>>>> I'm not saying our "spirit of invention" is gone but I do wonder if it
>>>> has changed from the purity of purpose and can do attitude it once
>>>> was.
>>>> My guess is the elusive off the shelf, highly controllable, 1lber, for
>>>> cheap many desire, though possible, will not come to market anytime
>>>> soon.  Maybe it's time to rekindle the spirit of DIY invention and
>>>> that can do attitude.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
>>>> Amherst MA.
>>>> http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) : http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Homeroast mailing list
>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) : http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Homeroast mailing list
>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) : http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
>
> _______________________________________________
> Homeroast mailing list
> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) : http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820



More information about the Homeroast mailing list