[Homeroast] "NO" to kopi

Edward Bourgeois edbourgeois at gmail.com
Tue Aug 9 20:06:40 CDT 2011


This is one of those extremely complex situations involving food,
farmers and scammers.
Kopi Luwak is marketed to the global elite, similar to shark fin soup.
It may have had a humble start and may even have some medicinal uses
or may not be a good thing to be drinking.
>From what I've heard, farms producing Kopi like the Doi Chaang
Plantation in Thailand  http://www.doichaangcoffee.com/ are far more
famous than El Injerto or Esmeralda Gesha. Kopi marketing is intense,
far beyond Gesha. It's offered by many well known roasters/shops
http://londiniumespresso.com/products/kopi-luwak  You can also buy a
fancy bag in a fancy box and get a bonus of a turd in Lucite paper
weight for the office. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk8_HabWkW0
Does it taste bad?   Relative to what? When in Kona I had to find
someone local harvesting at a beach to have a teaspoonful of fresh sea
urchin eggs.

 Some cuppers who have had the best real stuff find interesting
qualities. Some say after drinking it you develop a pooish body odor.
Some say it helps with asthma. Does any of this even matter as long as
it has been elevated to the "most expensive coffee in the world"

The serious problem is it's elevation to a global elitist market. This
makes it extremely vulnerable to every possible scam including cruelty
by caging and the human cruelty of possible health risks processing
it. Along with the dangers of getting who knows what for a product in
the bag.  With the global internet it is now out of control. Every
Kopi discussion on a coffee forum now surfaces a new member from the
far east defending Kopi and also offering some. Oh yes me and my
sister collect it ourself. It takes much time and we careful process
it and roast it in our wok on fire of rice stalk. PM me. I give you a
deal my friends. Just send me $$$ Western Union.

Can we stop this?  Sadly, probably not. It is the curiosity of it now
being an elitist food item that is problem. To make people aware of
the caging and exploitation may help a few stay away from it
altogether but others may just try to seek the elusive free range real
stuff. Many coffee geeks I know have tried it. I even know someone who
offered Jacu a few years back which at least has yet to climb to elite
status and probably has yet to be caged. I passed on it as I have
Kopi.

It's frustrating to be in such a situation. Food and farming in the
public mind is really really screwed up as it is. Groups like PETA try
the shock and awe approach. Frankly, I don't think this works in any
type of war. Monsanto claims GMO's are the only truly sustainable
foods future. Fighting that put you in jail in some states. Nothing
beats a "good" education and with kopi it is a rather complex one that
in my pro. experience with food consumers can easily allow a little
curiosity to eventually win out thus perpetuating the trade, scams and
cruelties. I've yet to find a really proper complete article on Kopi
worth using as an educating link. Sadly I have no answer to this
really complex issue. I just tend to focus on educating what I know is
good coffee, foods, farmers, farming  and  business. Hopefully, such a
foundation will help when someone is exposed to such a bizarre product
as Kopi Luwak or any other coffee or food offering in making a good
decision.




On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
> I don't mean to me all "activist" and such, but I created this facebook page
> (https://www.facebook.com/pages/No-to-Kopi-Luwak-Coffee/269009553115596) for
> the exact reason you are stating. I keep reading articles that fail to
> mention that a. it really is awful coffee and b. it is straight out animal
> cruelty . Really, not being touchy-feelie about it. It is. Also, sites that
> review it have a bunch of dorks saying what amazing coffee it is. Don't
> people think at least one reputable coffee company would carry it, if it was
> so good? The other thing I get is tons of solicitations of it on Facebook
> and email from farmers who think its their economic salvation. It's very
> wrongheaded. They don't do a good job with their normal coffee, and think
> Luwak will make them prosperous. It's just a big distraction, but I think
> (kinda opposite to what Ed proposed) I think we actually need to say NO to
> it, not ignore it. So anyone with FB, please visit the page and "like" it.
>
>> Thanks for the link. One of the posts had a link to the New York Times
>> article which seemed to lack information about the fact that civets are
>> omnivores which lean more to the carnivorous side of the fence. I can see
>> why they try to stay semi neutral on the subject, but you'd think that a
>> news organization like that would try to be at least a little more
>> factual.
>> If I ever get the hankering to try the stuff, you can bet I'll travel to
>> the
>> Cordillera myself and go poop hunting in the wild, and get about 12 oz to
>> throw in the Behmor at home after a good washing. In reality, that's never
>> gonna happen, but the novelty would be there, and it'd make a more
>> interesting "bucket list" entry.
>> Brad
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>> [mailto:homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com] On Behalf Of g
>> paris
>> p
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:05 AM
>> To: A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,
>> available at http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html
>> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] "NO" to kopi
>>
>> Hey Brad:
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>> I agree. To force feed an animal what it does not eat naturally is simply
>> wrong! Period.
>> Tom wrote an interesting piece with pictures on the forum.
>>
>> http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=454&sid=33d9ed25
>> b0fd7ec82da4933a724004a7&p=13425#p13425
>>
>> ginny
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Brad Byford <bbyford at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  If you buy the coffee, you're funding the Kopi market, so what I'm
>>> saying
>>>  is: From what I've read so far, I wouldn't buy this coffee because of
>>> how
>>>  its popularity has led to the mistreatment of the Civet. The post I was
>>>  referring to was the one about "saying no to kopi" by Ed. He said " Even
>>
>> if
>>>
>>>  we inform about the caging, poor quality and scams of kopi with no kopi
>>> I
>>>  wonder if we are still perpetuating the curiosity." I should clear
>>> things
>>>  up
>>>  by saying: I want to see every post, because to me, all the opinions are
>>>  valuable. I don't want the thread locked in other words. I'm not an
>>> animal
>>>  rights advocate, because I believe in a hierarchy of nature. Animals eat
>>>  vegetation, I eat animals. But force-feeding a Civet in a small cage
>>>  without
>>>  killing it to harvest its meat (and/or other parts) is inhumane. It
>>> lives
>>>  there suffering. I don't like that. So I don't support it. I don't have
>>> a
>>>  problem with harvesting livestock as long as the death is quick and
>>>  painless, and their parts are not wasted. That's not to say I have a
>>>  problem
>>>  with the choices of my vegan friends either. I just want some of my
>>
>> protein
>>>
>>>  to come from meat. I think it's healthier to not rule it out completely.
>>>  But
>>>  I'm now going off topic if I haven't already.
>>>
>>>  Brad
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>  [mailto:homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com] On Behalf Of g
>>>  paris
>>>  p
>>>  Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 6:48 PM
>>>  To: A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
>>> list,
>>>  available at http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html
>>>  Subject: Re: [Homeroast] "NO" to kopi
>>>
>>>  bbyford:
>>>
>>>  new to the list or not, no big deal. no one is asking you to FUND any
>>>  market. "posting about the subject perpetuates curiosity." NO, it cannot
>>
>> be
>>>
>>>  true bbyford!
>>>
>>>  I am sure there are members who LOVE kopi but all the sales talk in the
>>>  world doesn't perpetuate a sale as you so clearly mention.
>>>
>>>  could you please repeat what you said?  I am not clear on your actual
>>>  position on with this clear violation of animal rights.
>>>
>>>  thanks,
>>>
>>>  ginny
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 8:25 AM, <bbyford at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  > I'm new to the list, and I'd like to say I've learned enough from the
>>>  > recent posts to make me not want to fund this market. I agree that
>>>  posting
>>>  > about the subject perpetuates curiosity, but that's a good thing. It
>>>  makes
>>>  > me want to verify the claims about caging etc. It doesn't perpetuate a
>>>  sale
>>>  > by any means. At least not to me.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>  >
>>>  > _______________________________________________
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>>>  > Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>
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> --
> -Tom
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Sweet Maria's Coffee  -  Oakland, California  -  http://www.sweetmarias.com
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-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.
http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/



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