[Homeroast] Definitions and Agtron > hazmat blends of *$

Ryan M. Ward silvercro_magnon at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 8 17:54:55 CST 2010


Agreed, I completely missed your point regarding how the Agtron is used. 

-- 
Ryan M. Ward

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> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:31:18 -0800
> From: theotherjo at gmail.com
> To: homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Definitions and Agtron > hazmat blends of *$
> 
> miKe,
> Thank you for clearing ahhh, me up on this subject. I'm sure if others are
> listing they will benefit as well. It is very easy to confuse the use of
> highly technical equipment when it comes to color values and coffee.
> JoeR
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:22 PM, miKe mcKoffee <mcKona at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > I mentioned it but seems to have been missed. To clarify the Agtron system
> > is used to measure/name/specify the roast level, as determined by the
> > "ground" coffee. Not the whole bean unground. Also the system is profile
> > independent, couldn't care less about how it got roasted. Except for
> > uniformity in the color of the grounds.
> >
> > The Agtron Spectrophotometer system is not a tool for developing or
> > evaluating profiles, simply final roast level. However, Agtron has expanded
> > to offering Coffee Roasting Control Systems. Based on Carl Staub's
> > groundbreaking "Kinetic Roasting Method," Agtron Inc. developed two
> > electronic roasting wizards that can be fit to existing roasting equipment.
> >
> > Oh, they also have a spectrophotometer specifically designed to address the
> > special requirements associated with evaluating color changes relative to
> > the frying process of French Fried Potatoes. (I suspect developed at the
> > request of MickyD's?) And another one evaluating color changes during
> > tomato
> > maturation. And yet another used extensively in a large variety of food
> > products like; flours, spices, grains, nuts, cereals, sugars, snack foods,
> > baked goods, etc. They are also used for pharmaceuticals, plastics,
> > chemicals, paper and other industries.
> >
> > Back to coffee. As far as any "Industry Standard" naming conventions with
> > any sort of associated detailed roast parameters there are none as far as I
> > know. Some loosely most of the time agreed upon terminology is about it.
> > Hence you'll see meaningless (marketing) roast terms like "Bold Roast",
> > "Deep Roast", "Premium Roast" or yeah "Espresso Roast".
> >
> > Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
> > http://www.NorwestCoffee.com <http://www.norwestcoffee.com/>
> >
> > URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:
> > http://www.mckoffee.com/
> > Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
> > first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
> > found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone
> > before.
> >
> > Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives
> > http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> > > [mailto:homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Ryan M. Ward
> > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:32 PM
> > > To: homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Homeroast] hazmat blends of *$
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to suggest that we should
> > > all got out and buy Agtron systems- that would be sort of silly.
> > >
> > > I think that I should back up a bit and explain why I became
> > > interested in this topic in the first place, that may clarify
> > > where I am coming from.
> > >
> > > Personally, I am a Mathematician(Well, technically a
> > > Mathematics graduate student), which means that I am very
> > > focused on Logic and definitions. This is just how my life
> > > runs. In Mathematics, we have to take some abstract concepts
> > > and define them very clearly in a way that one can perform
> > > logical arguments on. Sometimes things that seem very obvious
> > > or intuitive are actually the hardest to define.
> > >
> > > Example (I am starting to get a little OT, I promise I will
> > > come back soon and make my point clear):
> > > Consider a collection of objects which has nothing in it.
> > > This, in set theory, is called an empty set(pretty
> > > descriptive name huh?). Well, the description above is not a
> > > very workable definition mathematically. It's hard to do math
> > > on it even though its point is rather clear, so we use a
> > > better definition:
> > >
> > > Definition: The empty set is the set of all elements which
> > > are not equal to themselves.
> > >
> > > This definition is very strange but surprisingly is very workable.
> > >
> > > Now, back to coffee. My interest in this topic arose out of
> > > the motivation I have outlined above. Has the industry
> > > established a formal definition, based in rigour and physical
> > > properties, for different roasting profiles. If such a
> > > definition exists, I am sure there are implications that
> > > trickle down to the home roaster but my original inquiry was
> > > simply whether such a definition exists. Mike then
> > > established that the industry uses color and a spectrometer
> > > to establish uniformity in roasting profiles. I assume that
> > > temperature is also controlled in this process. To summarize,
> > > I was simply asking if such a thing exists. I think we can
> > > all agree that if you throw some beans into a Behmor and
> > > roast for 2 seconds you certainly do not have a Full City
> > > roast, right? Well, this leads me to suspect that some kind
> > > of definition exists- even if a loose one.
> > >
> > > Now, regarding eggs and steak the same, equally valid
> > > question can be applied: Does an industry standard definition
> > > exist which clearly defines what an over easy egg is, or a
> > > medum rare steak is? I have no idea, when I am eating an egg
> > > am I focused on this question? No, of course not, I am eating
> > > an egg. Now, if I were to open up a high end French
> > > restaurant which caters to the egg connoisseurs, would I care
> > > then? Of course, I would be researching it like crazy, and
> > > then once I had mastered the ability to created the egg of
> > > definition, I would butcher the recipe and add my own
> > > personal signature to it. If I was feeding egg snobs, I would
> > > hate to listen to them complain about how the eggs florentine
> > > dish that I fed them wasn't even really eggs florentine
> > > because I forgot X, Y and Z. I probably would not care so
> > > much if I was having friends over though.
> > >
> > > Now, one last thought and then I will quit. I never meant to
> > > personally establish what that definition is. A formal
> > > definition can be sufficiently loose to allow for a wide
> > > range of variation. I could see a definition for an over easy
> > > egg as being an egg fried on both sides. The reason I
> > > question a color based definition with coffee roasting is
> > > that the surface can brown at a different rate than the
> > > center based on ambient temperature. This is why I feel that
> > > any definition based on color needs to at least account for
> > > temperature controls. In short, such a formal definition does
> > > not have anything to do with extreme repeatability, other
> > > than the fact that such a definition would allow "extreme
> > > repeatability" to occur should one choose.
> > > --
> > > Ryan M. Ward
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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