[Homeroast] Finished roast color coding relevance > Is it just me?

Greg Rothschild greg at gregrothschild.com
Sun Mar 7 09:46:28 CST 2010


My first post to this group. I'm new to roasting and reading and learning
quick as I can. 

>>Each one of us has more information available than we may realize. Why
limit our discussion to the color of the beans? Add time, add temperature to
>>that discussion.

Time, temp and PROFILE would be even more helpful I think, at least to a
newb like me. I looked at the bean darkness comparison pics on SW but the
pictures are really not that helpful since the shades are so close together.
Add to that all the other subtle variables mentioned in this thread
already... I'd given up on even using the descriptive terms (City, Full
City, etc.). They're beyond this beginner's grasp. But the timings, temps
and profiles- now that info is really helpful!
Thanks to all that share their knowledge and opinions.

Greg




-----Original Message-----
From: homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
[mailto:homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com] On Behalf Of John A C
Despres
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:44 AM
To: A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,
available at http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Finished roast color coding relevance > Is it just
me?

This discussion is just the reason I brought the naming issue up in another
thread a couple weeks ago.

These labels we're discussing seem to be pretty much the only way to
communicate with one another. We could come up with a new labeling system,
but what would it be? And when discussing home roasting with your friend in
New Zealand, how do you describe your roast to her?

We already have a fairly good method of communication that many of us are
able to use; some not, however. I cannot measure bean mass temp, so that
language is foreign.

But - I can tell you when the beans yellowed, when they hit first crack,
when they hit second crack, when the oils gushed forth like a Texas crude
strike and when they burst into flame. When a particular occurrence takes
place, we have a reasonably good idea what the bean temp may be, IE 1st
crack occurs at about 400F. Occurs at about 400F. About... Maybe 390F. Maybe
405F. In a world of absolutes, I wonder if home coffee roasting should
simply be recognized as an exception.

Dark brown, light brown, black, oily, Agtron 72, City +, Taste the coffee,
tell me it's good if you like it.

It is my understanding the big guys cannot match coffee roasts on a day to
day basis so they roast it and stale it for some time, months, I read
somewhere, in order that every can tastes the same... Dunno if it's true,
but it does seem to be a good equalizer. But is Stumptown or Intellagentsia
doing that? No, they're probably using those tools that have been discussed
here. Probably not on every batch and maybe quite seldom. I am sure of this,
though, they taste the coffee and make the final decision from there.

If you told me your roast hit yellow at 2:36 and 1st crack started at 3:49
and you pulled the roast at 5:55, with no adjustments, I'd say, given the
speed, you could be close to 2nd crack at the end of that roast. Let's call
this roast Full City - no hint of second crack.

Based on time information I can make a decent guess. Now let's put the beans
against a color chart or photos and we see it does look to be Full City. Now
let's grind some beans, and lay just a few whole beans on the grind... Hmmm,
really dark beans, rather light grind...Is it still Full City? Is there such
thing as too much information? Too little? Yes, and yes.

Each one of us has more information available than we may realize. Why limit
our discussion to the color of the beans? Add time, add temperature to that
discussion.

Roast the coffee and taste the coffee. That's all that matters. Tell us what
you taste.

And have fun.

John


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:02 AM, Yakster <yakster at gmail.com> wrote:

> I gave up 20 Khz years ago... I used to be bothered by the 15 KHz
> horizontal oscillators driving CRTs, but now I don't hear 'em.
>
> -Chris
>
> On 3/7/10, raymanowen at gmail.com <raymanowen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It is not a requirement of this list that each person parrot the
> politically
> > correct palaver as stated by anyone else in the whole world. What's the
> > advantage in that?
> >
> > The implication of:
> > "What do you mean some validity?"
> > miKe just tried to [convince] you that in the commercial coffee world...
> > Implies the art of roasting goes so far and no further; personal
> advancement
> > ceases to exist.
> >
> > *WHAT* in Blazes does this list have to do with the commercial coffee
> world?
> > NOTHING, and miKe, of all people is the antithesis of Big Coffee.
> >
> > What is it about miKe that makes you think that his hobby or enterprise
> is
> > based on the archaic and bearded Agtron tile inadequacies, or any other
> > facet of the commercial coffee world? Isn't that what primarily drove us
> all
> > to roasting and brewing for ourselves?
> >
> > The Commercial Coffee World- home of Foulgers, and the hazmat blends of
> *$.
> >
> > Since FC roasted coffee is not a primary color perceived by the human
> eye,
> > it can't be directly quantified. The credulity required to standardize
on
> a
> > quality rendered differently by the rods and cones in every human retina
> is
> > on the same page as "Human hearing is from 20hz - 20Khz "
> >
> > The Cosar and Macbeth densitometers can resolve Cyan, Magenta, Yellow
and
> > Black colors for critical graphics work, and can be found online for far
> > less than their original prices. In the 3-D mode, they could read coffee
> > beans, and 8000K super high intensity LED's could replace the
> incandescent
> > light sources.
> >
> > In the roaster control loop, a cheap densitometer or colorimeter would
> allow
> > a roast degree to be set to a specific number.
> >
> > Cheers and Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
> > --
> > Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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