[Homeroast] hmmm, another coffee scam???

g paris pchforever at gmail.com
Tue Jun 22 16:59:01 CDT 2010


spam the sucker back!! blow it off...
g

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Ryan M. Ward
<silvercro_magnon at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> I've been around this list a while. I don't write often, but watch out when
> I do.
> I hate it when science is co-opted to aid charlatans or marketeers.Here
> here!
>
> --
> Ryan M. Ward
>
> *Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10
> (Karmic Koala)
> http://www.ubuntu.com
>
> **Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not
> automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone
> other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open
> source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out
> with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:06:48 -0400
> > From: janomac at gmail.com
> > To: homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> > Subject: Re: [Homeroast] hmmm, another coffee scam???
> >
> > Geeez...
> > All you need to do to reduce destruction (i.e. removal or oxidation) of
> many
> > of the antioxidants found in coffee is to roast lighter than the near
> > Spanish roast found in most of the commercial enterprises. That single
> > factor (profile of roast) could be almost entirely responsible for any
> > perceived difference. Hmmm...
> >
> > I got it! Let's all agree to share the patent what USED to be called a
> > "City+" roast and we'll rename it and either sell the rights or pursue
> > litigation of any entity using this roast without permission and
> appropriate
> > (make that: "exhorbitant") royalties. We can advertise our product to be
> > heathful, using the latest data published via web health food sites, run
> a
> > few lab trials, and then sit back and enjoy an excellent cup of coffee,
> > individually prepared from gently and properly roasted, "best in the
> world"
> > beans acquired for us by our host. Hey...we can cut Tom in on this, too,
> and
> > call it the Sweet Maria Process (Registered Trademark, patent pending,
> > etc.). What do you all say? Any attorneys here that wish to draw up the
> > papers?
> >
> > But let's follow Kirk's (that's me) even more sketical argument:
> > HPLC (High Performance [sometimes High Pressure] Liquid Chromatography)
> can
> > be extremely sensitive and differentiate an enormous number of different
> > compounds found in a mixed sample of liquid-- depending upon the way the
> > user has set it up. Its definitely a "you only get what you are looking
> for"
> > analytical method. That is, a practitioner does NOT simply set up an HPLC
> &
> > run it willy-nilly. I do caffeine and acetomenophen (Tylenol [registered
> TM,
> > and all that legal jazz) with high school biology students each year. The
> > set-ups used for the (very) water soluble caffeine and the less soluble
> > acetomenophen are quite different. We even do it wrong on purpose to
> > demonstrate what happens when the wrong system is used to find the
> desired
> > compound.
> >
> > So, part of my skepticism comes in the HPLC testing done for (by?) the
> > Asantae coffee folks.
> >
> > Was the same method (timeline, reagents, pressure, column matrix, etc.)
> > used?  It is common to "lie" with HPLC in bogus phramaceutical "studies"
> > [often done in Europe & Asia by so-called "natural" medicine
> interests...I
> > fear we may have this in the USA, too) by running one set of samples with
> a
> > water-based mobile phase and another with an alcohol-base (often
> methanol)
> > and "comparing" the results. Of course, if you want to extract,
> > differentiate,  and visualize more organics in your propriatary blend,
> you'd
> > use an organic mobile phase and compare to the other stuff with which you
> > used water to extract the compounds. If you were looking to boost the
> > mineral component to yours, you'd do the opposite. Science doesn't lie,
> but
> > scientists sometimes do....they are people too, just like everyone else.
> > What has sometimes been done by ne'er-do-wells is a switch of columns
> > between runs. Old vs. new columns can produce widely variant
> results...and a
> > charlatan can capitalize on that difference to their own advantage.
> >
> > But let's say that the same organic or water-based solute was used on the
> > same properly maintained and rinsed columns. If you start with a charcoal
> > roast (say, like: *$'s French Roast), you would expect to have fewer
> complex
> > organics making it through the HPLC when compared to a lighter roast.
> Wow!
> > Now that's big science, indeed! [cynical laugh]. The long-chain organics
> > from the lipids will now be short-chain oils. Long-chain starches and
> other
> > polysaccharides will now be carmelized to shorter-chain sugars. Lots of
> > stuff will have been simply turned to ash.
> > ...and by the way: Ash is not a particularly potent anti-oxidant.
> >
> > How about the results from different premium blends of coffee (it was an
> > averaged result, after all)?
> > It seems to me that one of the very reasons for success by any of the
> larger
> > (so-called) "Premium" companies is that they take a big batch of
> relatively
> > inexpensive coffees, and both blend and roast to achieve a uniformity in
> > which essentially all "origin" flavors are lost or so masked as to make
> the
> > coffee "generic" across their market area and across the entire year
> > regardless of the season. This consistency may be good business, but
> makes
> > for mediocre -- or at least, relatively uninteresting, certainly
> uninspiring
> > --coffee flavor.
> >
> > So...could this "hype" be true? Sure. Their coffee may, indeed, have more
> > antioxidants. Whoopie! I would drink my good coffee if it had NO
> > antioxidants. Heck, I'd probably still drink it if it were "mildly"
> toxic.
> > But I will maintain that any of this vendor's health claims or any
> increased
> > amount of anti-oxidants will not be because of any "special," or
> "powerful"
> > roasting process.
> >
> > I've been around this list a while. I don't write often, but watch out
> when
> > I do.
> > I hate it when science is co-opted to aid charlatans or marketeers.
> >
> > Kirk
> > JanoMac
> > (resident protector of good science and enemy of pseudoscience and
> marketing
> > "science)
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Edward Bourgeois <edbourgeois at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> > > This was a comment just put on my blog site:
> > > """ I found a VERY great coffee: premium taste, new and HEALTHY
> > > powerful roasting, they worked 7 years on it and there are 3 patents
> > > on that coffee, bio, normal price like other bio coffees, fair trade,
> > > 3-5 times antioxidants than green tea, people are totally excited
> > > about this coffee, I confirm everybody I give it to try says the same,
> > > business is exploding in the US, people feel more energy and feel so
> > > good, you can also easily earn money with it from home. Reason: it is
> > > a VERY simple product that EVERYBODY wants. And coffee is the second
> > > commodity in world trade in value after oil. Here are the coffee links
> > > and please give me feedback, thx Chris:
> > > http://www.asantae-coffee.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.asantae-coffee.com/ """"
> > >  Geeez, should I stop buying from Tom and Maria and get with the
> > > future?????
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
> > > Amherst MA.
> > > http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
> > >
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