[Homeroast] hmmm, another coffee scam???

Ryan M. Ward silvercro_magnon at hotmail.com
Tue Jun 22 08:49:36 CDT 2010


I've been around this list a while. I don't write often, but watch out when
I do.
I hate it when science is co-opted to aid charlatans or marketeers.Here here!

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Ryan M. Ward

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> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:06:48 -0400
> From: janomac at gmail.com
> To: homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] hmmm, another coffee scam???
> 
> Geeez...
> All you need to do to reduce destruction (i.e. removal or oxidation) of many
> of the antioxidants found in coffee is to roast lighter than the near
> Spanish roast found in most of the commercial enterprises. That single
> factor (profile of roast) could be almost entirely responsible for any
> perceived difference. Hmmm...
> 
> I got it! Let's all agree to share the patent what USED to be called a
> "City+" roast and we'll rename it and either sell the rights or pursue
> litigation of any entity using this roast without permission and appropriate
> (make that: "exhorbitant") royalties. We can advertise our product to be
> heathful, using the latest data published via web health food sites, run a
> few lab trials, and then sit back and enjoy an excellent cup of coffee,
> individually prepared from gently and properly roasted, "best in the world"
> beans acquired for us by our host. Hey...we can cut Tom in on this, too, and
> call it the Sweet Maria Process (Registered Trademark, patent pending,
> etc.). What do you all say? Any attorneys here that wish to draw up the
> papers?
> 
> But let's follow Kirk's (that's me) even more sketical argument:
> HPLC (High Performance [sometimes High Pressure] Liquid Chromatography) can
> be extremely sensitive and differentiate an enormous number of different
> compounds found in a mixed sample of liquid-- depending upon the way the
> user has set it up. Its definitely a "you only get what you are looking for"
> analytical method. That is, a practitioner does NOT simply set up an HPLC &
> run it willy-nilly. I do caffeine and acetomenophen (Tylenol [registered TM,
> and all that legal jazz) with high school biology students each year. The
> set-ups used for the (very) water soluble caffeine and the less soluble
> acetomenophen are quite different. We even do it wrong on purpose to
> demonstrate what happens when the wrong system is used to find the desired
> compound.
> 
> So, part of my skepticism comes in the HPLC testing done for (by?) the
> Asantae coffee folks.
> 
> Was the same method (timeline, reagents, pressure, column matrix, etc.)
> used?  It is common to "lie" with HPLC in bogus phramaceutical "studies"
> [often done in Europe & Asia by so-called "natural" medicine interests...I
> fear we may have this in the USA, too) by running one set of samples with a
> water-based mobile phase and another with an alcohol-base (often methanol)
> and "comparing" the results. Of course, if you want to extract,
> differentiate,  and visualize more organics in your propriatary blend, you'd
> use an organic mobile phase and compare to the other stuff with which you
> used water to extract the compounds. If you were looking to boost the
> mineral component to yours, you'd do the opposite. Science doesn't lie, but
> scientists sometimes do....they are people too, just like everyone else.
> What has sometimes been done by ne'er-do-wells is a switch of columns
> between runs. Old vs. new columns can produce widely variant results...and a
> charlatan can capitalize on that difference to their own advantage.
> 
> But let's say that the same organic or water-based solute was used on the
> same properly maintained and rinsed columns. If you start with a charcoal
> roast (say, like: *$'s French Roast), you would expect to have fewer complex
> organics making it through the HPLC when compared to a lighter roast. Wow!
> Now that's big science, indeed! [cynical laugh]. The long-chain organics
> from the lipids will now be short-chain oils. Long-chain starches and other
> polysaccharides will now be carmelized to shorter-chain sugars. Lots of
> stuff will have been simply turned to ash.
> ...and by the way: Ash is not a particularly potent anti-oxidant.
> 
> How about the results from different premium blends of coffee (it was an
> averaged result, after all)?
> It seems to me that one of the very reasons for success by any of the larger
> (so-called) "Premium" companies is that they take a big batch of relatively
> inexpensive coffees, and both blend and roast to achieve a uniformity in
> which essentially all "origin" flavors are lost or so masked as to make the
> coffee "generic" across their market area and across the entire year
> regardless of the season. This consistency may be good business, but makes
> for mediocre -- or at least, relatively uninteresting, certainly uninspiring
> --coffee flavor.
> 
> So...could this "hype" be true? Sure. Their coffee may, indeed, have more
> antioxidants. Whoopie! I would drink my good coffee if it had NO
> antioxidants. Heck, I'd probably still drink it if it were "mildly" toxic.
> But I will maintain that any of this vendor's health claims or any increased
> amount of anti-oxidants will not be because of any "special," or "powerful"
> roasting process.
> 
> I've been around this list a while. I don't write often, but watch out when
> I do.
> I hate it when science is co-opted to aid charlatans or marketeers.
> 
> Kirk
> JanoMac
> (resident protector of good science and enemy of pseudoscience and marketing
> "science)
> 
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Edward Bourgeois <edbourgeois at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > This was a comment just put on my blog site:
> > """ I found a VERY great coffee: premium taste, new and HEALTHY
> > powerful roasting, they worked 7 years on it and there are 3 patents
> > on that coffee, bio, normal price like other bio coffees, fair trade,
> > 3-5 times antioxidants than green tea, people are totally excited
> > about this coffee, I confirm everybody I give it to try says the same,
> > business is exploding in the US, people feel more energy and feel so
> > good, you can also easily earn money with it from home. Reason: it is
> > a VERY simple product that EVERYBODY wants. And coffee is the second
> > commodity in world trade in value after oil. Here are the coffee links
> > and please give me feedback, thx Chris:
> > http://www.asantae-coffee.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.asantae-coffee.com/ """"
> >  Geeez, should I stop buying from Tom and Maria and get with the
> > future?????
> >
> > --
> > Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
> > Amherst MA.
> > http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
> >
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