[Homeroast] THE home roaster

Edward Bourgeois edbourgeois at gmail.com
Fri Dec 17 13:39:30 CST 2010


But it does limit some liability as long as it is not considered
defective. Without it liability insurance goes up many fold.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 1:07 PM, g paris p <pchforever at gmail.com> wrote:
> clearly ul listed does not mean safe!!
>
> g
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Edward Bourgeois <edbourgeois at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Tom said, "One way to approach this that might get around some legal
>> hurdles (because a really GOOD home roaster is probably not going to
>> be idiot-proof, and I am sure would be classified as a fire hazard by
>> some agency) is to make a kit".
>> This is what I've never heard a good explanation on. How can we work
>> around UL and avoid a life of prison coffee if we sell a roaster or
>> kit to someone. A friend of mine is a lawyer but not product liability
>> which she says is extremely complicated and confusing.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
>> <sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
>> > It's something we have batted around for a long time. It comes up
>> > recurrently. Honestly at one point there seemed to be almost TOO much
>> > interest in home roasting, mostly by those who wanted to strike it rich
>> by
>> > inventing THE home roasting machine. But their ideas of good features
>> always
>> > seemed to be , well, everything I would find either useless, or
>> ineffective.
>> > The problem with trying to create a reasonably priced home roaster is
>> that
>> > it takes a skill set I don't have. I can dream it up but I can't make it
>> go
>> > ... then add to that the huge problem with actually getting it
>> manufactured
>> > right, and not going over budget ... it's not easy. It makes me have some
>> > appreciation for Behmor although I see it's faults. I would not want to
>> make
>> > an appliance to convince people who would normally not roast their own
>> > coffee that they should. I would want to make one for those who DO roast
>> > their own coffee, to allow them to do it better. The Quest M3 is not
>> really
>> > what I would have in mind, but it does have the right feature set. And of
>> > course it is also not really a home machine at all, not a home appliance,
>> > nothing you would ever find among blenders and toaster ovens. One way to
>> > approach this that might get around some legal hurdles (because a really
>> > GOOD home roaster is probably not going to be idiot-proof, and I am sure
>> > would be classified as a fire hazard by some agency) is to make a kit. If
>> it
>> > was build around some commonly available heat source, and you had to put
>> it
>> > together, but gave control of heat/air, manual control of roast curves,
>> > physical sampling from the roast chamber, and cooled outside the roast
>> > chamber in 4 min or less, that would hit most of my targets. One
>> > disagreement I might find with other home roasters would be batch size. I
>> > think that a 150-300 gram batch is ideal. Many are going to want 1 lb. I
>> > think the best thing about home roasting is freshness and variety. So I
>> like
>> > smaller batches. But if you can roast and cool at the same time in a
>> machine
>> > like this, I think most would be okay with a 1/2 lb batch.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> >> Tom,
>> >> Thank you for your incite and wisdom that only comes from hours and
>> hours
>> >> doing what you do with the wonderful tools/roasters at your disposal.
>> >> Regarding your comment,
>> >>  "Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is difficult; doing
>> >> it
>> >> in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling within the same space you
>> >> roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and those factors make
>> a
>> >> difference in successful results."
>> >> Have you had the opportunity to consult on home roaster design and
>> >> engineering concepts with a manufacturer?
>> >> Just seems like of all the professionals I know of you would be the
>> first
>> >> I
>> >> would come to.
>> >> Thank you again for so much of the roasting/targeting picture from your
>> >> perspective and how much or little the machine matters.
>> >> Makes me want to drag out the popper and play again and compare like you
>> >> described, same bean different roast systems.
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Joseph
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
>> >> sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>  I appreciate this conversation and have been holding back from
>> weighing
>> >>> in
>> >>>  here. People are entitled to their opinions, and home roasters have
>> >>> never
>> >>>  held back. I look at each roaster as something unique, each with ups
>> and
>> >>>  downs. I think you can get good roasts in many of these machines.
>> There
>> >>> was
>> >>>  a real change around here when I decided I could no longer roast all
>> my
>> >>>  samples on a home roaster. The volume of samples was just too great,
>> and
>> >>> I
>> >>>  needed a multi-barrel roaster that could roast and cool at the same
>> >>> time.
>> >>>  But I still use most all the roasters (I even have a Poppery 1 on the
>> >>> bench,
>> >>>  across from a vintage  3 barrel electric Probat and a 3 barrel Gothot
>> >>> gas
>> >>>  roaster). I do not "profile" sample roasts - it's a straight line from
>> >>> start
>> >>>  to finish, within a range of about 9-11 minutes, with minor
>> adjustments
>> >>> in a
>> >>>  session if I find the roast times creeping up or dropping off. I use
>> the
>> >>>  green coffee batch size to adjust the roast as well. If I roast a
>> batch
>> >>> in
>> >>>  the Quest (or the Poppery 1 for that matter, or I Roast or Behmor or
>> >>> Hottop)
>> >>>  I don't expect it to be better or worse. I expect it to be slightly
>> >>>  different, that's all. We compare roasts regularily- I did 6 separate
>> >>>  batches of a decaf arrival in the Probat (imagine how much time it
>> would
>> >>>  take in one behmor!) and we did a Behmor batch as well. Behmor cupped
>> >>> quite
>> >>>  favorably. My Probat allows me great control, as the quest m3  does,
>> as
>> >>> well
>> >>>  as much greater opportunity to ruin the coffee as well. In not of this
>> >>> are
>> >>>  we talking about larger batch roasting, which we do a bit of in the
>> L-12
>> >>>  Probat, and on that we use several basic adjustments to air and gas
>> >>> during
>> >>>  the roast. The key on the L-12 is to have it properly installed, and
>> >>> very
>> >>>  clean ducting because it has low air flow. I think the L-12 roasts are
>> >>> nice,
>> >>>  but I feel that the critical factor is what you are putting in, the
>> >>> coffee.
>> >>>  I can say for sure that i MIGHT like an L-12 batch of a particular
>> >>> Kenya,
>> >>>  but it will have a different taste profile than my sample roasts.
>> >>> Usually I
>> >>>  produce many sample roasts of each coffee, and if I toss one L-12
>> batch
>> >>> on
>> >>>  the table with these many sample roasts, I guarantee you I will find
>> one
>> >>> of
>> >>>  the sample roasts I like better.
>> >>>
>> >>>  My point is this; It might seem that it's about the machine, and the
>> >>>  operator. True, it is. But you have no chance of quality without
>> putting
>> >>> in
>> >>>  good ingredients, and without targeting a specific end point. With
>> small
>> >>>  (home roast size) batches, I get many snap shots of the same coffee,
>> and
>> >>>  several seconds difference in degree of roast is where some coffees
>> can
>> >>>  really shift. Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is
>> >>>  difficult; doing it in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling
>> within
>> >>> the
>> >>>  same space you roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and
>> >>> those
>> >>>  factors make a difference in successful results. To a large degree,
>> >>> other
>> >>>  differences are secondary. If a Behmor no longer meets your needs and
>> a
>> >>>  Quest might, fine. That would be like me at the point I found I could
>> >>> not
>> >>>  possibly produce enough samples in a home roaster. A Quest is not a
>> >>> Behmor.
>> >>>  A Quest is not a 3 barrel Probat nor an L-12. All are tools with
>> >>> different
>> >>>  capabilities. It depends on what you are trying to do with them. The
>> >>> thing I
>> >>>  find endlessly amusing is that you can produce AMAZING coffee in an
>> air
>> >>>  popper.
>> >>>
>> >>>  There is not one right way. If you spend 4x as much money, you can
>> still
>> >>>  produce horrible coffee. People do it every day on $250k of roast
>> >>> equipment.
>> >>>  With care, and accepting some limitations, a $2 thrift store find can
>> >>> result
>> >>>  in great coffee.
>> >>>
>> >>>  Anyway, just trying to chime in with some perspective from a different
>> >>>  place... now I am going to go roast a Guatemala sample in the Behmor!
>> >>>  --
>> >>>  -Tom
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________________________
>> >>>  "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
>> >>>  Roasting
>> >>>              Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________________________
>> >>>    Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
>> >>>            phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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>> >
>> > --
>> > -Tom
>> >
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> > "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
>> > Roasting
>> >              Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> >    Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
>> >            phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
>> Amherst MA.
>> http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
>>
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-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.
http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/



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