[Homeroast] THE home roaster

Joseph Robertson theotherjo at gmail.com
Wed Dec 15 17:53:48 CST 2010


Hank,
Thanks for that. Very clear points you make.
Joe

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Hank Perkins <hankperkins at gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> One big difference is the roaster is an oven that will generate
> temperatures upwards of 500 degrees.  Home electronics are not heaters.
> There is a big difference right there.
>
> Secondly, anytime you participate in an act of commerce with another
> individual you potentially accept liability personally or as a business.
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Joseph Robertson <theotherjo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ed,
> > What would be the technical difference between me selling you a ham radio
> I
> > built or a home roaster and they both short out and burn a house down.
> There
> > has got to be a disclaimer to protect the seller?
> > Just wondering. If you get a chance, please ask her ( your attorney
> friend
> > )this for me.
> > Plenty of folks have sold kits they built to other, say ham friends. A
> kit
> > should be a kit if you get my jest. True one has a lot of heat inside and
> I
> > do realize insurance rates are based on incident reports and frequency of
> > occurrence etc. etc etc.
> > Thank for your input Ed,
> > Joe
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Edward Bourgeois <edbourgeois at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Tom said, "One way to approach this that might get around some legal
> >> hurdles (because a really GOOD home roaster is probably not going to
> >> be idiot-proof, and I am sure would be classified as a fire hazard by
> >> some agency) is to make a kit".
> >> This is what I've never heard a good explanation on. How can we work
> >> around UL and avoid a life of prison coffee if we sell a roaster or
> >> kit to someone. A friend of mine is a lawyer but not product liability
> >> which she says is extremely complicated and confusing.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
> >> <sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
> >>> It's something we have batted around for a long time. It comes up
> >>> recurrently. Honestly at one point there seemed to be almost TOO much
> >>> interest in home roasting, mostly by those who wanted to strike it rich
> >> by
> >>> inventing THE home roasting machine. But their ideas of good features
> >> always
> >>> seemed to be , well, everything I would find either useless, or
> >> ineffective.
> >>> The problem with trying to create a reasonably priced home roaster is
> >> that
> >>> it takes a skill set I don't have. I can dream it up but I can't make
> it
> >> go
> >>> ... then add to that the huge problem with actually getting it
> >> manufactured
> >>> right, and not going over budget ... it's not easy. It makes me have
> some
> >>> appreciation for Behmor although I see it's faults. I would not want to
> >> make
> >>> an appliance to convince people who would normally not roast their own
> >>> coffee that they should. I would want to make one for those who DO
> roast
> >>> their own coffee, to allow them to do it better. The Quest M3 is not
> >> really
> >>> what I would have in mind, but it does have the right feature set. And
> of
> >>> course it is also not really a home machine at all, not a home
> appliance,
> >>> nothing you would ever find among blenders and toaster ovens. One way
> to
> >>> approach this that might get around some legal hurdles (because a
> really
> >>> GOOD home roaster is probably not going to be idiot-proof, and I am
> sure
> >>> would be classified as a fire hazard by some agency) is to make a kit.
> If
> >> it
> >>> was build around some commonly available heat source, and you had to
> put
> >> it
> >>> together, but gave control of heat/air, manual control of roast curves,
> >>> physical sampling from the roast chamber, and cooled outside the roast
> >>> chamber in 4 min or less, that would hit most of my targets. One
> >>> disagreement I might find with other home roasters would be batch size.
> I
> >>> think that a 150-300 gram batch is ideal. Many are going to want 1 lb.
> I
> >>> think the best thing about home roasting is freshness and variety. So I
> >> like
> >>> smaller batches. But if you can roast and cool at the same time in a
> >> machine
> >>> like this, I think most would be okay with a 1/2 lb batch.
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>>
> >>>> Tom,
> >>>> Thank you for your incite and wisdom that only comes from hours and
> >> hours
> >>>> doing what you do with the wonderful tools/roasters at your disposal.
> >>>> Regarding your comment,
> >>>> "Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is difficult;
> doing
> >>>> it
> >>>> in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling within the same space
> you
> >>>> roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and those factors
> make
> >> a
> >>>> difference in successful results."
> >>>> Have you had the opportunity to consult on home roaster design and
> >>>> engineering concepts with a manufacturer?
> >>>> Just seems like of all the professionals I know of you would be the
> >> first
> >>>> I
> >>>> would come to.
> >>>> Thank you again for so much of the roasting/targeting picture from
> your
> >>>> perspective and how much or little the machine matters.
> >>>> Makes me want to drag out the popper and play again and compare like
> you
> >>>> described, same bean different roast systems.
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Joseph
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
> >>>> sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I appreciate this conversation and have been holding back from
> >> weighing
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> here. People are entitled to their opinions, and home roasters have
> >>>>> never
> >>>>> held back. I look at each roaster as something unique, each with ups
> >> and
> >>>>> downs. I think you can get good roasts in many of these machines.
> >> There
> >>>>> was
> >>>>> a real change around here when I decided I could no longer roast all
> >> my
> >>>>> samples on a home roaster. The volume of samples was just too great,
> >> and
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> needed a multi-barrel roaster that could roast and cool at the same
> >>>>> time.
> >>>>> But I still use most all the roasters (I even have a Poppery 1 on the
> >>>>> bench,
> >>>>> across from a vintage  3 barrel electric Probat and a 3 barrel Gothot
> >>>>> gas
> >>>>> roaster). I do not "profile" sample roasts - it's a straight line
> from
> >>>>> start
> >>>>> to finish, within a range of about 9-11 minutes, with minor
> >> adjustments
> >>>>> in a
> >>>>> session if I find the roast times creeping up or dropping off. I use
> >> the
> >>>>> green coffee batch size to adjust the roast as well. If I roast a
> >> batch
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the Quest (or the Poppery 1 for that matter, or I Roast or Behmor or
> >>>>> Hottop)
> >>>>> I don't expect it to be better or worse. I expect it to be slightly
> >>>>> different, that's all. We compare roasts regularily- I did 6 separate
> >>>>> batches of a decaf arrival in the Probat (imagine how much time it
> >> would
> >>>>> take in one behmor!) and we did a Behmor batch as well. Behmor cupped
> >>>>> quite
> >>>>> favorably. My Probat allows me great control, as the quest m3  does,
> >> as
> >>>>> well
> >>>>> as much greater opportunity to ruin the coffee as well. In not of
> this
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> we talking about larger batch roasting, which we do a bit of in the
> >> L-12
> >>>>> Probat, and on that we use several basic adjustments to air and gas
> >>>>> during
> >>>>> the roast. The key on the L-12 is to have it properly installed, and
> >>>>> very
> >>>>> clean ducting because it has low air flow. I think the L-12 roasts
> are
> >>>>> nice,
> >>>>> but I feel that the critical factor is what you are putting in, the
> >>>>> coffee.
> >>>>> I can say for sure that i MIGHT like an L-12 batch of a particular
> >>>>> Kenya,
> >>>>> but it will have a different taste profile than my sample roasts.
> >>>>> Usually I
> >>>>> produce many sample roasts of each coffee, and if I toss one L-12
> >> batch
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> the table with these many sample roasts, I guarantee you I will find
> >> one
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> the sample roasts I like better.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My point is this; It might seem that it's about the machine, and the
> >>>>> operator. True, it is. But you have no chance of quality without
> >> putting
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> good ingredients, and without targeting a specific end point. With
> >> small
> >>>>> (home roast size) batches, I get many snap shots of the same coffee,
> >> and
> >>>>> several seconds difference in degree of roast is where some coffees
> >> can
> >>>>> really shift. Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is
> >>>>> difficult; doing it in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling
> >> within
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> same space you roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and
> >>>>> those
> >>>>> factors make a difference in successful results. To a large degree,
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> differences are secondary. If a Behmor no longer meets your needs and
> >> a
> >>>>> Quest might, fine. That would be like me at the point I found I could
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> possibly produce enough samples in a home roaster. A Quest is not a
> >>>>> Behmor.
> >>>>> A Quest is not a 3 barrel Probat nor an L-12. All are tools with
> >>>>> different
> >>>>> capabilities. It depends on what you are trying to do with them. The
> >>>>> thing I
> >>>>> find endlessly amusing is that you can produce AMAZING coffee in an
> >> air
> >>>>> popper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is not one right way. If you spend 4x as much money, you can
> >> still
> >>>>> produce horrible coffee. People do it every day on $250k of roast
> >>>>> equipment.
> >>>>> With care, and accepting some limitations, a $2 thrift store find can
> >>>>> result
> >>>>> in great coffee.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, just trying to chime in with some perspective from a
> different
> >>>>> place... now I am going to go roast a Guatemala sample in the Behmor!
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> -Tom
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
> >>>>> Roasting
> >>>>>             Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>   Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
> >>>>>           phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Homeroast mailing list
> >>>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :
> >>>>> http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Homeroast mailing list
> >>>> Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :
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> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> -Tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>> "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
> >>> Roasting
> >>>             Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
> >>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>>   Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
> >>>           phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
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> >>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
> >> Amherst MA.
> >> http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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>
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-- 
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