[Homeroast] THE home roaster

Joseph Robertson theotherjo at gmail.com
Wed Dec 15 16:19:39 CST 2010


Ed,
What would be the technical difference between me selling you a ham radio I
built or a home roaster and they both short out and burn a house down. There
has got to be a disclaimer to protect the seller?
Just wondering. If you get a chance, please ask her ( your attorney friend
)this for me.
Plenty of folks have sold kits they built to other, say ham friends. A kit
should be a kit if you get my jest. True one has a lot of heat inside and I
do realize insurance rates are based on incident reports and frequency of
occurrence etc. etc etc.
Thank for your input Ed,
Joe

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Edward Bourgeois <edbourgeois at gmail.com>wrote:

> Tom said, "One way to approach this that might get around some legal
> hurdles (because a really GOOD home roaster is probably not going to
> be idiot-proof, and I am sure would be classified as a fire hazard by
> some agency) is to make a kit".
> This is what I've never heard a good explanation on. How can we work
> around UL and avoid a life of prison coffee if we sell a roaster or
> kit to someone. A friend of mine is a lawyer but not product liability
> which she says is extremely complicated and confusing.
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
> <sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
> > It's something we have batted around for a long time. It comes up
> > recurrently. Honestly at one point there seemed to be almost TOO much
> > interest in home roasting, mostly by those who wanted to strike it rich
> by
> > inventing THE home roasting machine. But their ideas of good features
> always
> > seemed to be , well, everything I would find either useless, or
> ineffective.
> > The problem with trying to create a reasonably priced home roaster is
> that
> > it takes a skill set I don't have. I can dream it up but I can't make it
> go
> > ... then add to that the huge problem with actually getting it
> manufactured
> > right, and not going over budget ... it's not easy. It makes me have some
> > appreciation for Behmor although I see it's faults. I would not want to
> make
> > an appliance to convince people who would normally not roast their own
> > coffee that they should. I would want to make one for those who DO roast
> > their own coffee, to allow them to do it better. The Quest M3 is not
> really
> > what I would have in mind, but it does have the right feature set. And of
> > course it is also not really a home machine at all, not a home appliance,
> > nothing you would ever find among blenders and toaster ovens. One way to
> > approach this that might get around some legal hurdles (because a really
> > GOOD home roaster is probably not going to be idiot-proof, and I am sure
> > would be classified as a fire hazard by some agency) is to make a kit. If
> it
> > was build around some commonly available heat source, and you had to put
> it
> > together, but gave control of heat/air, manual control of roast curves,
> > physical sampling from the roast chamber, and cooled outside the roast
> > chamber in 4 min or less, that would hit most of my targets. One
> > disagreement I might find with other home roasters would be batch size. I
> > think that a 150-300 gram batch is ideal. Many are going to want 1 lb. I
> > think the best thing about home roasting is freshness and variety. So I
> like
> > smaller batches. But if you can roast and cool at the same time in a
> machine
> > like this, I think most would be okay with a 1/2 lb batch.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >> Tom,
> >> Thank you for your incite and wisdom that only comes from hours and
> hours
> >> doing what you do with the wonderful tools/roasters at your disposal.
> >> Regarding your comment,
> >>  "Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is difficult; doing
> >> it
> >> in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling within the same space you
> >> roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and those factors make
> a
> >> difference in successful results."
> >> Have you had the opportunity to consult on home roaster design and
> >> engineering concepts with a manufacturer?
> >> Just seems like of all the professionals I know of you would be the
> first
> >> I
> >> would come to.
> >> Thank you again for so much of the roasting/targeting picture from your
> >> perspective and how much or little the machine matters.
> >> Makes me want to drag out the popper and play again and compare like you
> >> described, same bean different roast systems.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Joseph
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
> >> sweetmarias at sweetmarias.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  I appreciate this conversation and have been holding back from
> weighing
> >>> in
> >>>  here. People are entitled to their opinions, and home roasters have
> >>> never
> >>>  held back. I look at each roaster as something unique, each with ups
> and
> >>>  downs. I think you can get good roasts in many of these machines.
> There
> >>> was
> >>>  a real change around here when I decided I could no longer roast all
> my
> >>>  samples on a home roaster. The volume of samples was just too great,
> and
> >>> I
> >>>  needed a multi-barrel roaster that could roast and cool at the same
> >>> time.
> >>>  But I still use most all the roasters (I even have a Poppery 1 on the
> >>> bench,
> >>>  across from a vintage  3 barrel electric Probat and a 3 barrel Gothot
> >>> gas
> >>>  roaster). I do not "profile" sample roasts - it's a straight line from
> >>> start
> >>>  to finish, within a range of about 9-11 minutes, with minor
> adjustments
> >>> in a
> >>>  session if I find the roast times creeping up or dropping off. I use
> the
> >>>  green coffee batch size to adjust the roast as well. If I roast a
> batch
> >>> in
> >>>  the Quest (or the Poppery 1 for that matter, or I Roast or Behmor or
> >>> Hottop)
> >>>  I don't expect it to be better or worse. I expect it to be slightly
> >>>  different, that's all. We compare roasts regularily- I did 6 separate
> >>>  batches of a decaf arrival in the Probat (imagine how much time it
> would
> >>>  take in one behmor!) and we did a Behmor batch as well. Behmor cupped
> >>> quite
> >>>  favorably. My Probat allows me great control, as the quest m3  does,
> as
> >>> well
> >>>  as much greater opportunity to ruin the coffee as well. In not of this
> >>> are
> >>>  we talking about larger batch roasting, which we do a bit of in the
> L-12
> >>>  Probat, and on that we use several basic adjustments to air and gas
> >>> during
> >>>  the roast. The key on the L-12 is to have it properly installed, and
> >>> very
> >>>  clean ducting because it has low air flow. I think the L-12 roasts are
> >>> nice,
> >>>  but I feel that the critical factor is what you are putting in, the
> >>> coffee.
> >>>  I can say for sure that i MIGHT like an L-12 batch of a particular
> >>> Kenya,
> >>>  but it will have a different taste profile than my sample roasts.
> >>> Usually I
> >>>  produce many sample roasts of each coffee, and if I toss one L-12
> batch
> >>> on
> >>>  the table with these many sample roasts, I guarantee you I will find
> one
> >>> of
> >>>  the sample roasts I like better.
> >>>
> >>>  My point is this; It might seem that it's about the machine, and the
> >>>  operator. True, it is. But you have no chance of quality without
> putting
> >>> in
> >>>  good ingredients, and without targeting a specific end point. With
> small
> >>>  (home roast size) batches, I get many snap shots of the same coffee,
> and
> >>>  several seconds difference in degree of roast is where some coffees
> can
> >>>  really shift. Getting really good at targeting that roast degree is
> >>>  difficult; doing it in a Behmor is even harder. That (and cooling
> within
> >>> the
> >>>  same space you roast in) are my gripes with most home roasters, and
> >>> those
> >>>  factors make a difference in successful results. To a large degree,
> >>> other
> >>>  differences are secondary. If a Behmor no longer meets your needs and
> a
> >>>  Quest might, fine. That would be like me at the point I found I could
> >>> not
> >>>  possibly produce enough samples in a home roaster. A Quest is not a
> >>> Behmor.
> >>>  A Quest is not a 3 barrel Probat nor an L-12. All are tools with
> >>> different
> >>>  capabilities. It depends on what you are trying to do with them. The
> >>> thing I
> >>>  find endlessly amusing is that you can produce AMAZING coffee in an
> air
> >>>  popper.
> >>>
> >>>  There is not one right way. If you spend 4x as much money, you can
> still
> >>>  produce horrible coffee. People do it every day on $250k of roast
> >>> equipment.
> >>>  With care, and accepting some limitations, a $2 thrift store find can
> >>> result
> >>>  in great coffee.
> >>>
> >>>  Anyway, just trying to chime in with some perspective from a different
> >>>  place... now I am going to go roast a Guatemala sample in the Behmor!
> >>>  --
> >>>  -Tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>>  "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
> >>>  Roasting
> >>>              Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>>    Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
> >>>            phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >>>  Homeroast mailing list
> >>>  Homeroast at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>>  Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> > --
> > -Tom
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > "Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee
> > Roasting
> >              Thompson & Maria - http://www.sweetmarias.com
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >    Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
> >            phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Homeroast mailing list
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> >
> http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> > Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :
> > http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
> Amherst MA.
> http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/
>
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