[Homeroast] Turning Bottomless Portafilter

Joseph Robertson theotherjo at gmail.com
Mon Aug 30 01:05:28 CDT 2010


Barry,
When in class with Mane' I noticed he always added sugar and stirred it and
drank it. Everyone seems to have their taste and technique.
I have tasted some really fine espresso at miKe's shop in Vancouver. I guess
I just got used to tasting spro straight with out stirring or adding
anything. Seems like the only way I can tell what I'm doing with my own is
to take it straight like single malt scotch. Sure looking forward to a spro
crawl with Bry.
JoeR

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Barry Luterman <lutermanb at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have tried it both ways many times. Although it is true crema by itself
> is
> not good and crema floating on top is only slightly better. The best seems
> to be crema stirred into the brew. At least to my taste.
>
> On Aug 29, 2010 7:10 PM, "Joseph Robertson" <theotherjo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Peter,
> > I saw this video when it first came out and had a lot of question and
> doubt
> > about it. I have mentioned it before here so I won't doddle long here as
> I
> > got some negative comments.
> > I for one like my creama not stirred in. Kind of like Martini's or butter
> > side up or butter side down.
> > In the case of James video/analysis of the taste difference with and
> without
> > creama I wanted to know what a science professional and master coffee
> > roaster and owner of CoffeeLabs International would have to say about
> this
> > video so I forwarded it on to him for a comment. After viewing the video
> he
> > got back to me and only had a one word comment. "Rubbish" I'm sure he
> means
> > no direct disrespect for a former WBC. I think he strongly just disagrees
> > with James on this point. Besides isn't taste subjective anyway?
> > He said that the creama holds some very important components of espresso
> and
> > named the chemicals by name. Damned if I can remember that part.
> > Remove them and guess what. It's not what it was and in my mind surely
> not
> > what the machine was designed to put out. IMNSHO
> > Just a few pennies to add before I have to close up the shop.
> > JoeR
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Peter Louton <
> peter at midwestbicycleworks.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree with Mike that practice makes better, but I find that the crema
> >> does drastically change the taste of the shot and I have been known to
> scoop
> >> off the crema and drink only what's left.  To really stir the
> crema,
> >> check out James Hoffman's Video about crema at 
> >> www.jimseven.com/2009/07/06/video-1-crema 
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Sent from my Palm Pre
> >> On Aug 29, 2010 13:42, miKe mcKoffee <mcKona at comcast.net<lt%3BmcKona at comcast.net>
> <lt%3BmcKona at comcast.net <lt%253BmcKona at comcast.net>>
> <lt%3BmcKona at comcast.net <lt%253BmcKona at comcast.net> <
> lt%253BmcKona at comcast.net <lt%25253BmcKona at comcast.net>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Been involved in and read discussions of shot perceived difference, if
> any,
> >>
> >> between nekkid and spouted for close to a decade. Many of these
> discussions
> >>
> >> with some of the most acute palates in the world often using the most
> >>
> >> cutting edge equipment in the world like Roburs or Versalab grinders and
> >>
> >> GS3s or Speetsters etc. (And everthing on down.) Don't recall
> temperature
> >> of
> >>
> >> the resulting cup ever being an issue. Usually biggest perceived
> difference
> >>
> >> is in the "unstirred" straight shot with spouted being creamier texture
> >>
> >> versus nekkid. Stir the shot and difference bye-bye.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If someone thinks they can pull a couple or few shots a day and be even
> >>
> >> close to 90% consistent without ongoing shot feedback IMO quite
> delusional.
> >>
> >> Indeed quite a bit of can be gleened watching spouted flow (with years
> of
> >>
> >> experience not just an afternoon of instruction), but not as much or as
> >>
> >> rapidly as pulling nekkid. It ain't primarily about showy shots, it's
> about
> >>
> >> quality shot production.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> And a HUGE advantage of pulling nekkid in a busy environment is the PF
> >>
> >> doesn't need periodic cleaning at all, zero, zip. No old coffee clinging
> to
> >>
> >> spout and crevices degrading shots. Baskets easily kept clean rinsing
> just
> >>
> >> rinsing both sides same time post shot flushing group after each shot
> and
> >>
> >> wiping dry. During the day periodic water backflushes and basket steam
> >>
> >> cleaning all that's needed to keep it clean and shot quality high.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The biggest complaint I hear from some people using nekkid PF's is mess
> >> from
> >>
> >> frequent spraying. If that's a constant problem PF build technique is
> >> faulty
> >>
> >> plan and simple. Pulling with spout will merely mask it not correct it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> miKe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> > From: homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com
> >>
> >> > [mailto:homeroast-bounces at lists.sweetmariascoffee.com] On
> >>
> >> > Behalf Of Joseph Robertson
> >>
> >> > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 7:56 AM
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > miKe,
> >>
> >> > This question is to you. I know you like pf's as much as I do
> >>
> >> > but I have
> >>
> >> > never heard you chime in when we get into pf pro and con's of these
> >>
> >> > discussions regarding the temp differential between bottom on
> >>
> >> > and bottom off
> >>
> >> > as Dennis just brought up.
> >>
> >> > Can we talk you out of another 2 cents on this. I know you
> >>
> >> > have probably
> >>
> >> > covered it before but for the sake of us old dogs with old
> >>
> >> > memory cells?
> >>
> >> > JoeR
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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