[Homeroast] Monday Morning Cup

Doug Hoople doughoople at gmail.com
Wed Aug 25 23:41:12 CDT 2010


Hi Joe,

RayO is a very entertaining member of our little community, and we'd be the
poorer for his absence.

While he seems to have a particular flair for writing in complete
obliviousness while responding to my posts in particular (possibly
intentionally, the sly dog :)), he quite often also makes very good points.

Thanks.
Doug

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Joseph Robertson <theotherjo at gmail.com>wrote:

> Doug,
> You and RayO both make very good points. It takes about a year or so to
> learn to speak "RayO" but after you do it will all make sence. Seriously.
>  I
> have collected all the comments and posts of RayO  ;^) and in another year
> or two I will be publishing a book of "The coffee world according to RayO"
> Seriously the science he apply's works on more than coffee. RayO, I would
> never do such a thing with out a clear contract with you to do it. So in
> the
> mean time I will sip my coffee and enjoy all your posts and reply's.
> JR
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Doug Hoople <doughoople at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't have a clue what you're actually getting at here, RayO, but
> that's
> > nothing new. You're often getting at not much, almost always
> > entertainingly,
> > though.
> >
> > A year ago, when I was experiencing regular drawdown delays and stalls in
> > my
> > Yama vacpots with a Cory rod, Barry suggested that the answer to the
> > problem
> > was, in his words, "Grinder, Grinder, Grinder," a mantra we hear around
> > here
> > a lot.
> >
> > Turns out that assertion was wrong in two ways, 1) that the problem would
> > go
> > away with the introduction of a great grinder, and 2) that there was no
> > other way of addressing the problem.
> >
> > Barry ran a short, but relatively conclusive, test that indicated
> coarsely
> > ground dark roast coffee from either a Mazzer Mini or a Cimbali Max
> Hybrid
> > still caused drawdown delays in a Yama vacpot with a Cory rod.
> >
> > That's not to say that the problem wasn't lessened by the introduction of
> a
> > "great" grinder, only that it wasn't solved outright.
> >
> > In the meantime, using the terminal heat burst method, I was able to take
> > the output of the Baratza Virtuoso, a "good" grinder (longevity relative
> to
> > the Mazzer tanks notwithstanding), and make the problem go away entirely,
> > using any grind level and any level of darkness of roast.
> >
> > Now it could be argued that neither the Mazzer Mini nor the Cimbali Max
> > Hybrid are "great" grinders, but you're starting to really split hairs at
> > that point. And who wants to sign up for a Robur or a Ditting in the
> hopes
> > that "grinder, grinder, grinder" is the whole answer, especially if the
> > answer is actually "not really."
> >
> > Was my research exhaustive? No. Could it actually be called research?
> Under
> > the tightest definitions, no.
> >
> > But do I have enough information to demonstrate conclusively that I don't
> > need a $3000 grinder or a kitchen-reducing tank in order to get my
> > glass-rod
> > vacpot to behave properly? Absolutely.
> >
> > So put that in your Super Jolly and grind it, RayO. :)
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:40 PM, <raymanowen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "A great grinder wasn't going to solve the problem, and you helped me
> to
> > > prove that." [The research was a farce if you already knew the answer.]
> > >
> > > "Doesn't mean that a lousy grinder wouldn't confound the problem, just
> > that
> > > a
> > > great grinder wasn't going to fix it."
> > >
> > > Congratulations! You proved a negative. Does your proof hold in every
> > case,
> > > or only in the case of Great Grinders from Grinders-R-Us, that you can
> > hold
> > > at arm's length in one hand?
> > >
> > > Maybe you proved that 2 different POS grinders are identically bad, so
> > you
> > > can't detect the difference between them.
> > >
> > > When two grinders both make grounds with with wild size and shape
> > > variation,
> > > neither has control of the particulate size, and the operator has no
> > > control
> > > over the brewing characteristic of grounds that resemble Martian
> surface
> > > rubble.
> > >
> > > Different size coffee particles brew and extract differently. Otherwise
> > why
> > > make small pieces out of the fairly uniform-sized beans in the first
> > place,
> > > and why make the grinders adjustable at all??
> > >
> > > The one statement that would answer both questions is ludicrous. If you
> > > need
> > > size variation in a particular brewing method or it doesn't make any
> > > difference, you're sitting in the rong pew.
> > >
> > > Blade grinders generate the exact rubble you seek and they preheat the
> > > grounds at no additional charge. When viewed with an inspection loupe,
> > even
> > > the grind from new Mazzer burrs is seen to vary by as much as 10:1
> > >
> > > The particle volume variation is 1,000:1. (r³ and all) If that doesn't
> > make
> > > any difference, *$ has your coffee. Helluva note! Happily, there aren't
> > > many
> > > fines from the new burrs. The old [new] burrs lasted 5 years before
> they
> > > started making fines, even though they felt very sharp. ¿Maybe grinding
> > > bread flour wrecked them? No more of that, but it worked.
> > >
> > > If a different brew requires a different grind size, then proper
> brewing
> > > can't possibly use the variable rubble size of most grinders. Of
> course,
> > if
> > > you like stalled brews in vacuum pots, don't change a thing. Keep doing
> > > what
> > > you've done and you'll keep getting what you got.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
> > >
> > > Got grinder?
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