[Homeroast] Monday Morning Cup

Joseph Robertson theotherjo at gmail.com
Wed Aug 25 20:23:58 CDT 2010


Doug,
You and RayO both make very good points. It takes about a year or so to
learn to speak "RayO" but after you do it will all make sence. Seriously.  I
have collected all the comments and posts of RayO  ;^) and in another year
or two I will be publishing a book of "The coffee world according to RayO"
Seriously the science he apply's works on more than coffee. RayO, I would
never do such a thing with out a clear contract with you to do it. So in the
mean time I will sip my coffee and enjoy all your posts and reply's.
JR


On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Doug Hoople <doughoople at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't have a clue what you're actually getting at here, RayO, but that's
> nothing new. You're often getting at not much, almost always
> entertainingly,
> though.
>
> A year ago, when I was experiencing regular drawdown delays and stalls in
> my
> Yama vacpots with a Cory rod, Barry suggested that the answer to the
> problem
> was, in his words, "Grinder, Grinder, Grinder," a mantra we hear around
> here
> a lot.
>
> Turns out that assertion was wrong in two ways, 1) that the problem would
> go
> away with the introduction of a great grinder, and 2) that there was no
> other way of addressing the problem.
>
> Barry ran a short, but relatively conclusive, test that indicated coarsely
> ground dark roast coffee from either a Mazzer Mini or a Cimbali Max Hybrid
> still caused drawdown delays in a Yama vacpot with a Cory rod.
>
> That's not to say that the problem wasn't lessened by the introduction of a
> "great" grinder, only that it wasn't solved outright.
>
> In the meantime, using the terminal heat burst method, I was able to take
> the output of the Baratza Virtuoso, a "good" grinder (longevity relative to
> the Mazzer tanks notwithstanding), and make the problem go away entirely,
> using any grind level and any level of darkness of roast.
>
> Now it could be argued that neither the Mazzer Mini nor the Cimbali Max
> Hybrid are "great" grinders, but you're starting to really split hairs at
> that point. And who wants to sign up for a Robur or a Ditting in the hopes
> that "grinder, grinder, grinder" is the whole answer, especially if the
> answer is actually "not really."
>
> Was my research exhaustive? No. Could it actually be called research? Under
> the tightest definitions, no.
>
> But do I have enough information to demonstrate conclusively that I don't
> need a $3000 grinder or a kitchen-reducing tank in order to get my
> glass-rod
> vacpot to behave properly? Absolutely.
>
> So put that in your Super Jolly and grind it, RayO. :)
>
> Doug
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:40 PM, <raymanowen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "A great grinder wasn't going to solve the problem, and you helped me to
> > prove that." [The research was a farce if you already knew the answer.]
> >
> > "Doesn't mean that a lousy grinder wouldn't confound the problem, just
> that
> > a
> > great grinder wasn't going to fix it."
> >
> > Congratulations! You proved a negative. Does your proof hold in every
> case,
> > or only in the case of Great Grinders from Grinders-R-Us, that you can
> hold
> > at arm's length in one hand?
> >
> > Maybe you proved that 2 different POS grinders are identically bad, so
> you
> > can't detect the difference between them.
> >
> > When two grinders both make grounds with with wild size and shape
> > variation,
> > neither has control of the particulate size, and the operator has no
> > control
> > over the brewing characteristic of grounds that resemble Martian surface
> > rubble.
> >
> > Different size coffee particles brew and extract differently. Otherwise
> why
> > make small pieces out of the fairly uniform-sized beans in the first
> place,
> > and why make the grinders adjustable at all??
> >
> > The one statement that would answer both questions is ludicrous. If you
> > need
> > size variation in a particular brewing method or it doesn't make any
> > difference, you're sitting in the rong pew.
> >
> > Blade grinders generate the exact rubble you seek and they preheat the
> > grounds at no additional charge. When viewed with an inspection loupe,
> even
> > the grind from new Mazzer burrs is seen to vary by as much as 10:1
> >
> > The particle volume variation is 1,000:1. (r³ and all) If that doesn't
> make
> > any difference, *$ has your coffee. Helluva note! Happily, there aren't
> > many
> > fines from the new burrs. The old [new] burrs lasted 5 years before they
> > started making fines, even though they felt very sharp. ¿Maybe grinding
> > bread flour wrecked them? No more of that, but it worked.
> >
> > If a different brew requires a different grind size, then proper brewing
> > can't possibly use the variable rubble size of most grinders. Of course,
> if
> > you like stalled brews in vacuum pots, don't change a thing. Keep doing
> > what
> > you've done and you'll keep getting what you got.
> >
> > Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
> >
> > Got grinder?
> >  _______________________________________________
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